David and Stephen Flynn
The happy pear podcast logo
David and Stephen Flynn

The Happy Pear Podcast

Have you ever heard of Dr. Melanie Joy? Well, if you haven’t you should! Is it acceptable to say this could be our favourite episode to date?

Episode 4 – Dr. Melanie Joy

Joy has an incredible capacity to distill information in the most tangible way. She effortlessly cuts to the core of so many major issues that impact us all. From the macros like climate change or racism to the micros of personal relationships.

“When you look at systems of oppression like racism, classism, carnism/animal exploitation. All of these are expressions of the same type of thinking. Each set of victims of these forms of oppression will always have unique experiences, but the systems themselves are structurally similar and the mentality that drives these systems are the same.”

Melanie Joy, Ph.D., is a Harvard-educated psychologist specialising in relationships, communication, and social change. She is the author of six books, including the award-winning Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows, Beyond Beliefs: A Guide to Improving Relationships and Communication Among Vegans, Vegetarians, and Meat Eaters, and Getting Relationships Right. Joy is the eighth recipient of the Institute of Jainology’s Ahimsa Award, which was previously given to Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama. Her work has been featured by numerous media outlets, including the BBC, ABC Australia, NPR, and the New York Times. She is also the founding President of the non-profit organisation, Beyond Carnism.

Moving from effective and ineffective forms of communication and relation literacy to veganism and her own perfectly coined term, Carnism – We delve deep into her formula for successful relations, and really how attainable it is. 

“Every communication, has two parts to it; it has the content, that’s what we are communicating about and then there’s the process, and that’s HOW we are communicating. We tend to all over-focus on the content “I just want to get the words right, I just want to get my answer out there”, but the process matters much more. If you think about a conversation that you had, 6 months to a year ago. It’s possible that you actually forgot the content entirely -somebody you talked to at a party or something- but you probably remembered how you felt in that conversation. The process determines how you feel and when your process is healthy, you can communicate about anything without arguing…when your process is not healthy, you can’t communicate about anything without arguing. You probably know people who have so much in common, and yet always seem to find a reason to butt heads and argue together.”

A truly awakening episode. Please let us know your thoughts on socials and if you like what you hear, please subscribe and share.

Lots of Love,

Dave and Steve

Available now from all good podcast providers:

listen on spotify


You can learn more about Dr. Melanie Joy and her work at carnism.org.